Because I’ve had quite a number of new subscribers these past couple of weeks, I wanted to repost my earlier writing on Women Talking on Mary Gaitskill’s Substack, “Women Talking: A Mennonite Woman Speaks Out” in response to her earlier writing: “Women Talking: the unspeakable indeed
Do you know about the seemingly overlooked foundation for the book? Here’s a link. We did see the movie. Under the presented circumstances, flight seemed the only sane option to me, and the later facts about the continued rapes after the initial convictions and imprisonments demonstrate that. Nature vs. nurture? Look forward to more fully understanding your thoughts. https://time.com/6250526/women-talking-mennonite-bolivia-real-story/
Yes...the continued situation is harrowing and people have discussed discomfort with the movie doing so well versus the women who still may be in this situation. Is that what you mean by the “overlooked foundation”? Mary and I both discuss the fictional endings of both the movie and the book in our pieces. They are indeed fiction. The reporter who broke the story has written some important follow up about where the situation stands.
By “overlooked foundation,” I was referring to the article/link included in my earlier reply — a piece by the journalist who actually bore witness without being a victim. I’m sure the story is fuller. The more I learned, the more my feminist and investigative reporter genes came to the fore. I’m sure you and Mary know more. I’m sure Frances McDormand has a lot of influence.
Hi Francesca, yes, the original, ongoing story of Manitoba Colony in Bolivia is harrowing. Mary and I both refer to Jean Friedman-Rudovsky's reportage in our pieces. I also remember when the story came out through the Mennonite media years ago. Toews’ book is such important reading for many reasons. And the reporter certainly deserves the recognition as this story continues to unfold with uncertain futures for many of these women. I hope we get more fiction and non-fiction writing and movies as brave as these all are.
Indeed! It’s no news that the savage abuse of women, not to mention oppression, is global. How to change that remains unclear to me. Every effort matters.
I have been to the Manitoba Colony area in Bolivia twice and shot many pictures and videos. I am from the same lineage as the people in these colonies and I have a decent grasp of the Low German language.
You note that “the culture portrayed is so specific. By specific I mean: discussions of pacifism and other tenets of Mennonite faith; foot washing;… the hymns the women sing or that are heard in the soundtrack…” These are all examples of cultural specifics, yes, but not of the culture of Old Colony Mennonites. What is portrayed in the movie/book is visually Old Colony Mennonite, but the dialogue and many of the cultural specifics are decidedly modern liberal Mennonite.
Thanks for chiming in here, Michael. I look forward to reading your work. Expressions of Mennonite culture are certainly varied. My main issue with the movie was that it didn’t mention Mennonite specifically at all. I did like the foot washing, even if that wasn’t accurate for the colonies. And most of the hymns in the movie were so familiar to me, it was haunting, but likely that was also a mix of in and not in that tradition. I didn’t get that feeling with the women’s singing in the book.
Thanks for your reflection on Women Talking, the film and the book. I am interested in the choice of the narrator. While I understand the importance of a male voice in this story, I believe telling the story from the point of view of o young survivor is both powerful and hopeful.
Hi Kathy, yes. I do understand the reason why Polley chose this narrator for the movie. And I do think using the young girl Autje leads to a more positive sense of a cinematic ending; there is a sense that the women will survive leaving the colony. But the book goes deeper into the history and complication of the situation in a way that a young survivor would not be able to do (per the movie script) as she will have left the colony before gaining that sense of understanding. Polley’s adaption is powerful in many other ways, though. I’m so glad it won an Oscar! I also think Toews’ book is invaluable.
One issue for me, even in the film, was putting the recording of events in the hands of a man, even one as sympathetic as August. I think the act of storytelling is powerful and many marginalized people have been deprived of that power. My worry at the end of the film was that August would be murdered in order to kill the story. He was very vulnerable. I totally agree with you about the masterful adaptation and am glad that the academy agreed!
Indeed, the fate of August is as harrowing as the women, in my mind. There is more uncertainty in the book, which is part of its power, I think. But I understand that the medium of a movie is so different. And Toews was involved in the adaption, so it seems it stayed true to her vision. Powerful artist expression all around.
I won’t bother you anymore after this, but I’ve been thinking about some feminist criticism I’ve read that argues that written language is a tool of the patriarchy. Film is a visual and oral storytelling tool. I think that’s why I am drawn to the young girl’s voice and her telling the tale in an unwritten form. Thanks for helping me think about this, Jennifer. Stay well.
The conversation isn’t bothering me at all! It makes me think all of the more of the ideas in the movie and novel. Language can certainly be a tool of the patriarchy and I also understand, cinematically, why Polley had to wrestle with the narrative choice when adapting the novel. There also is so much backstory that is part of our understanding of his character that would have taken the film out of that powerful place of the hayloft. The discussion Miriam Toews has with David Naimon on Between the Covers really gets into her reasons for having August present. And the story itself is troubling in terms of how written language is denied these women. Writing is also a form of self-agency that is not given to them.
Do you know about the seemingly overlooked foundation for the book? Here’s a link. We did see the movie. Under the presented circumstances, flight seemed the only sane option to me, and the later facts about the continued rapes after the initial convictions and imprisonments demonstrate that. Nature vs. nurture? Look forward to more fully understanding your thoughts. https://time.com/6250526/women-talking-mennonite-bolivia-real-story/
Yes...the continued situation is harrowing and people have discussed discomfort with the movie doing so well versus the women who still may be in this situation. Is that what you mean by the “overlooked foundation”? Mary and I both discuss the fictional endings of both the movie and the book in our pieces. They are indeed fiction. The reporter who broke the story has written some important follow up about where the situation stands.
By “overlooked foundation,” I was referring to the article/link included in my earlier reply — a piece by the journalist who actually bore witness without being a victim. I’m sure the story is fuller. The more I learned, the more my feminist and investigative reporter genes came to the fore. I’m sure you and Mary know more. I’m sure Frances McDormand has a lot of influence.
Hi Francesca, yes, the original, ongoing story of Manitoba Colony in Bolivia is harrowing. Mary and I both refer to Jean Friedman-Rudovsky's reportage in our pieces. I also remember when the story came out through the Mennonite media years ago. Toews’ book is such important reading for many reasons. And the reporter certainly deserves the recognition as this story continues to unfold with uncertain futures for many of these women. I hope we get more fiction and non-fiction writing and movies as brave as these all are.
Indeed! It’s no news that the savage abuse of women, not to mention oppression, is global. How to change that remains unclear to me. Every effort matters.
Hello, Mennonite friend!
I have been to the Manitoba Colony area in Bolivia twice and shot many pictures and videos. I am from the same lineage as the people in these colonies and I have a decent grasp of the Low German language.
I am writing a multi-part series on Women Talking on my SStack based on my personal history, experience, and direct connections to these Bolivian colonies. I hope it’s ok to post a link here. https://michaelkrahn.substack.com/p/women-talking-a-missed-opportunity
You note that “the culture portrayed is so specific. By specific I mean: discussions of pacifism and other tenets of Mennonite faith; foot washing;… the hymns the women sing or that are heard in the soundtrack…” These are all examples of cultural specifics, yes, but not of the culture of Old Colony Mennonites. What is portrayed in the movie/book is visually Old Colony Mennonite, but the dialogue and many of the cultural specifics are decidedly modern liberal Mennonite.
I’ll be exploring all of this in my series.
Thanks for chiming in here, Michael. I look forward to reading your work. Expressions of Mennonite culture are certainly varied. My main issue with the movie was that it didn’t mention Mennonite specifically at all. I did like the foot washing, even if that wasn’t accurate for the colonies. And most of the hymns in the movie were so familiar to me, it was haunting, but likely that was also a mix of in and not in that tradition. I didn’t get that feeling with the women’s singing in the book.
Thanks for your reflection on Women Talking, the film and the book. I am interested in the choice of the narrator. While I understand the importance of a male voice in this story, I believe telling the story from the point of view of o young survivor is both powerful and hopeful.
Hi Kathy, yes. I do understand the reason why Polley chose this narrator for the movie. And I do think using the young girl Autje leads to a more positive sense of a cinematic ending; there is a sense that the women will survive leaving the colony. But the book goes deeper into the history and complication of the situation in a way that a young survivor would not be able to do (per the movie script) as she will have left the colony before gaining that sense of understanding. Polley’s adaption is powerful in many other ways, though. I’m so glad it won an Oscar! I also think Toews’ book is invaluable.
One issue for me, even in the film, was putting the recording of events in the hands of a man, even one as sympathetic as August. I think the act of storytelling is powerful and many marginalized people have been deprived of that power. My worry at the end of the film was that August would be murdered in order to kill the story. He was very vulnerable. I totally agree with you about the masterful adaptation and am glad that the academy agreed!
Indeed, the fate of August is as harrowing as the women, in my mind. There is more uncertainty in the book, which is part of its power, I think. But I understand that the medium of a movie is so different. And Toews was involved in the adaption, so it seems it stayed true to her vision. Powerful artist expression all around.
I won’t bother you anymore after this, but I’ve been thinking about some feminist criticism I’ve read that argues that written language is a tool of the patriarchy. Film is a visual and oral storytelling tool. I think that’s why I am drawn to the young girl’s voice and her telling the tale in an unwritten form. Thanks for helping me think about this, Jennifer. Stay well.
The conversation isn’t bothering me at all! It makes me think all of the more of the ideas in the movie and novel. Language can certainly be a tool of the patriarchy and I also understand, cinematically, why Polley had to wrestle with the narrative choice when adapting the novel. There also is so much backstory that is part of our understanding of his character that would have taken the film out of that powerful place of the hayloft. The discussion Miriam Toews has with David Naimon on Between the Covers really gets into her reasons for having August present. And the story itself is troubling in terms of how written language is denied these women. Writing is also a form of self-agency that is not given to them.